#MeToo in the Maghreb: 4th Wave Feminism Enters Morocco

About a month ago, a university teacher in Oujda was accused of having sex with female students in exchange for good grades. Following a strike inside the campus, this incident rapidly became viral in the whole kingdom.

Medias24:

The conclusions of the inspection commission dispatched by Abdellatif Miraoui to investigate the anonymous accusations of sexual harassment at ENCG Oujda have fallen.

“There is a lot of truth,” says a source at the Ministry of Higher Education joined by Médias24. The commission, therefore, confirmed the existence of proven facts. Based on these conclusions, sanctions were pronounced against the incriminated professor and the leaders whose responsibility is engaged by their function.

According to our source and the document communicated to the presidency of the Mohammed 1st University of Oujda, consulted by Médias24:

– The professor and president of the management sector, the main accused in this case, is suspended from his duties with immediate effect. He will have to appear before a disciplinary council meeting urgently.
– The director of the ENCG is forced to resign.
– The secretary-general is removed from office.
– The deputy director, also removed from her position, will have to explain why she refused the claims and complaints of sexual harassment.

Many similar protests broke out across the internet in several cities following the controversy. Is Morocco having its #MeToo moment?

Le360:

Assabah recalls that the multiplication of cases of sexual harassment in universities is now causing civil society actors to react. The Women’s Rights League has just taken up the case and launched a hashtag on social networks to denounce these cases. She also announced the launch of a digital platform dedicated to listening to and supporting victims of what she describes as violence. She also underlined the impact that this can have on the right of these young girls to education and training, not to mention all the psychological repercussions they may suffer.

As expected, virtually all media outlets criticized the teachers smeared in these accusations. Unsurprisingly, no deep analysis criticized the culture and environment of the Moroccan school system, which facilitates immoral behavior. We only hear and read the “men-as-predators” narrative that is constantly blasted out by liberal media.

Muslims should be careful in adopting this line of thinking. An academic study led in 2010 showed that about 50% of accusations of rape are unfounded. Another paper even indicates that 41% of rape accusations could very well be false reports. These statistics prove the importance of the Islamic guidelines to avoid suspicion and reject unsubstantiated claims of sexual wrongdoing.

The reality, whether feminists want to accept it or not, is that such allegations are sometimes a weapon used by women.

RELATED: The Curious Case of the MeToo Mufti: Abdullah Nana

This matter is tricky because protectiveness is natural for men. We all want to protect women. We all want to punish rapists and pigs who harass women.

Still, that inbuilt masculine instinct does not give us a moral basis for movements like #MeToo, as these movements create a society of injustice, not a society of protection.

The publication explains that the establishment’s management has just set up a toll-free number and an email address where any victim of harassment or blackmail can report their stalker anonymously. This measure comes a few days after similar initiatives from other universities, including Oujda, where a scandal has been in the headlines for several days.

Islam offers practical solutions to problems related to men-women interaction. These are solutions based on protective guidelines to limit greatly these incidents in the first place. These are solutions that present strict rules addressing convicted rapists AND false accusers who should also be blamed, contrary to the unjust pro-feminist laws of the West.

As Allah says in the Quran:

The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse – lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion [i.e., law] of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment. The fornicator does not marry except a [female] fornicator or polytheist, and none marries her except a fornicator or a polytheist, and that [i.e., marriage to such persons] has been made unlawful to the believers. And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses – lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient, Except for those who repent thereafter and reform, for indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Surah 24:2-5

Why shouldn’t we as believers adopt the rational, effective solutions to life’s problems presented by the Quran and the Sunnah, instead of stupidly aping liberals?

RELATED: FACE and Alia Salem: The Pro-LGBT Deviants Who Hunt Imams

We don’t stress enough how the first cause of sexual harassment is NOT miseducation. It is unnecessary mixing between men and women.

It is silly to facilitate the mixing of males and females, who will spend one-third or more of their days together, and expect that no misconduct will occur.

This delusional expectation is proof of how liberal society is not as protective of women as they arrogantly presume. Liberals do not want to abandon the practice of intergender mixing because both their men and women are driven by base desires.

In the end, the average liberal man wants to protect women from others, not from himself.

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akh

Feminism is being pushed world wide right now. It’s part of the UN’s Agenda 2030.

Pushing it in places like the Maghreb will prove to be a disaster simply because those countries don’t have a welfare system in place to replace fathers and husbands.

The only thing this will cause is more divorce, more illegitimacy and more poverty. And consequently more crime. Which will bleed into Europe through illegal youth migration. These disenfranchised Maghrebi youths are already creating havoc in many European countries today.

Basicallly it will, over time, start to resemble Latin America more and more.

Navid Armand Anwari

What can we do to protect ourselves against it?

Takeshi

You have explained it perfectly! ; in developed nations the governments have a welfare state where the state protects people (from broken families such as single moms with their kids, etc) from poverty, but governments in developing nations such as morocco and many other countries do not have resources to provide welfare systems.
; there the traditional family is protecting millions of people , it is a “safety net” ; there with all the unemployment most young people live with their parents until they become Independent (something that happens in very advanced ages(35+ years of age) in developing nations).
Destroying that “safety net”(divorces) thanks to feminissm, will send millions to the streets , and crime will skyrocket (criminal gangs, drugs, theft, murder, etc)…when youg kids grow up in the streets that’s what they will learn…

That’s what has already happened in many Latin American countries, even Argentina is suffering from it.

All this will create bigger numbers of immigrants that will flood Europe and the far right will benefit greatly…

akh

Destroying that “safety net”(divorces) thanks to feminissm, will send millions to the streets , and crime will skyrocket (criminal gangs, drugs, theft, murder, etc)…when youg kids grow up in the streets that’s what they will learn…”

Indeed. In Morocco these machete-wielding youth gangs known as “tcharmil” started to spring up around 2014. They literally look like Mad Max characters.

Interestingly enough these kids were all born or grew up after Morocco changed the Mudawana in 2003 after Western, and especially French pressure; under the pretext of women’s rights.

These changes in Islamic family law caused a meteoric rise in divorce and single mothers. And a reluctance among men to get married in the first place. Which in its turn caused many types of immoral behaviour.

Takeshi

Some moroccan and algerian youngsters are indeed making a name in bringing problems in France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Spain…
The far right parties are actually very happy with them, thanks to them people give them their votes… What to expect?

Add this other problem : how is it possible that all the “hip hop” and “rap” industry is being leaded by youngsters of muslim Maghrebian descent? “Boef” in the Netherlands, “Lacrim” in France, “El Morad” in Spain…. What do this rapers sing in their songs? Their songs are about zina, drugs, hood mentality, you name it…. They are misleading all the muslim teenagers(also non-muslim teenagers) into doing bad stuff… They are literally doing dawah for the Shaytan with their songs…. All this benefits the far right…..

Muslims are sleeping a deep sleep unfortunately… Their children are being brainwashed left and right….

May Allah protect us all
Ameen

Last edited 3 months ago by Takeshi
Takeshi

More of this info is needed, great article.

The Muslim world still has time to wake up to this problem and protect the traditional muslim family , it’s still not too late like in the west.
More of this information coming out to light is nuch needed, specially for all muslims in the muslim countries ; muslims need to wake up because the clock is ticking.

As for us muslims in the west, we are almost doomed in my opinion and prove me otherwise if anyone has a different opinion, the wave is too big…

Feminissm and all this gender ideologies that follow, are a much dangerous problem than z-i-o-n-i-s-m itself….

Baz

You will NOT eliminate all sexual misbehavior by eliminating all co-ed schools/colleges/workplaces like you think. The fact is that inappropriate sexual behavior can and does often happen in single-gender schools and colleges. For example Pakistani Quranic medresahs where there is a long-running epidemic of mullahs and molvies doing sexual relations with the boys, which is now more widely reported and their police are now actively taking action against it. In the old Saudi Arabia even since long before the current liberal reforms, they have a huge “underground scene” of lots of men and boys discreetly having homosexual relations, including at boys schools and lesbian at girls schools, especially in the bathrooms where they get more privacy. It is well-documented that actually the gay underground scene has been going on throughout the Islamic world for centuries (including during the Golden age of Andalus/Spain and Ottoman) even since long before LGBT and modern films came to promote it openly. And it is likely to be larger than the heterosexual fornication scene since it is easier to get away with gay/lesbian relationships since homosexuals and lesbians can easily pose as normal platonic friends or roommates.

Another important point to note is that there are hundreds of millions of conservative Muslims, including myself and even Mr and Mrs Haqiqatjou, who have attended co-ed schools and/or colleges/universities without ever getting into any kind of inappropriate or haram relationship. So, with sufficient anti-dating and anti-Zinaa education (provided either by the schools themselves in Muslim countries, or by parents and mosques/imams in NonMuslim countries) Muslims are more than capable of exercising their own self-control and self-discipline to willingly abstain from falling into any kind of haram or inappropriate sexual interactions whether in single-sex or co-ed schools and colleges, like how I did, and like how millions of other Muslims worldwide did, including like how Mr and Mrs Haqiqatjou did at Harvard. WE MUSLIMS ARE PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF CONTROLLING OURSELVES EVEN IN THE MOST MIXED ENVIRONMENTS IN THE MOST SINFUL CITIES.

Which one do you think is worse? The heterosexual fornication, or the equally large (if not larger) underground scene of homosexuality and lesbianism?

Baz

Here is an extract from the article “The Kingdom in the Closet” from “The Atlantic” magazine, proving the point that I’m making. You can see the full article if you Google search the article title.

Sodomy is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, but gay life flourishes there. Why it is “easier to be gay than straight” in a society where everyone, homosexual and otherwise, lives in the closet

By Nadya Labi
MAY 2007 ISSUE

Yasser, a 26-year-old artist, was taking me on an impromptu tour of his hometown of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on a sweltering September afternoon. Men congregated outside and in nearby cafés. Whereas most such establishments have a family section, two of this area’s cafés allow only men; not surprisingly, they are popular among men who prefer one another’s company. Yasser gestured to a parking lot across from the shopping center, explaining that after midnight it would be “full of men picking up men.” These days, he said, “you see gay people everywhere.”

As long as gays and lesbians maintain a public front of obeisance to Wahhabist norms, they are left to do what they want in private. Vibrant communities of men who enjoy sex with other men can be found in cosmopolitan cities like Jeddah and Riyadh. They meet in schools, in cafés, in the streets, and on the Internet. “You can be cruised anywhere in Saudi Arabia, any time of the day,” said Radwan, a 42-year-old gay Saudi American who grew up in various Western cities and now lives in Jeddah. “They’re quite shameless about it.” Talal, a Syrian who moved to Riyadh in 2000, calls the Saudi capital a “gay heaven.”

‘They will seduce you’
When Yasser hit puberty, he grew attracted to his male cousins. Like many gay and lesbian teenagers everywhere, he felt isolated. “I used to have the feeling that I was the queerest in the country,” he recalled. “But then I went to high school and discovered there are others like me. Then I find out, it’s a whole society.”

This society thrives just below the surface. During the afternoon, traffic cops patrol outside girls’ schools as classes end, in part to keep boys away. But they exert little control over what goes on inside. A few years ago, a Jeddah- based newspaper ran a story on lesbianism in high schools, reporting that girls were having sex in the bathrooms. Yasmin, a 21-year-old student in Riyadh who’d had a brief sexual relationship with a girlfriend (and was the only Saudi woman who’d had a lesbian relationship who was willing to speak with me for this story), told me that one of the department buildings at her college is known as a lesbian enclave. The building has large bathroom stalls, which provide privacy, and walls covered with graffiti offering romantic and religious advice; tips include “she doesn’t really love you no matter what she tells you” and “before you engage in anything with [her] remember: God is watching you.” In Saudi Arabia, “It’s easier to be a lesbian [than a heterosexual]. There’s an overwhelming number of people who turn to lesbianism,” Yasmin said, adding that the number of men in the kingdom who turn to gay sex is even greater. “They’re not really homosexual,” she said. “They’re like cell mates in prison.”

This analogy came up again and again during my conversations. As Radwan, the Saudi American, put it, “Some Saudi [men] can’t have sex with women, so they have sex with guys. When the sexes are so strictly segregated”—men are allowed little contact with women outside their families, in order to protect women’s purity—“how do they have a chance to have sex with a woman and not get into trouble?” Tariq, a 24-year-old in the travel industry, explains that many “tops” are simply hard up for sex, looking to break their abstinence in whatever way they can. Francis, a 34-year-old beauty queen from the Philippines (in 2003 he won a gay beauty pageant held in a private house in Jeddah by a group of Filipinos), reported that he’s had sex with Saudi men whose wives were pregnant or menstruating; when those circumstances changed, most of the men stopped calling. “If they can’t use their wives,” Francis said, “they have this option with gays.”

Gay courting in the kingdom is often overt—in fact, the preferred mode is cruising. “When I was new here, I was worried when six or seven cars would follow me as I walked down the street,” Jamie, a 31-year-old Filipino florist living in Jeddah, told me. “Especially if you’re pretty like me, they won’t stop chasing you.” John Bradley, the author of Saudi Arabia Exposed: Inside a Kingdom in Crisis (2005), says that most male Western expatriates here, gay or not, have been propositioned by Saudi men driving by “at any time of the day or night, quite openly and usually very, very persistently.”

Many gay expatriates say they feel more at home in the kingdom than in their native lands. Jason, a South African educator who has lived in Jeddah since 2002, notes that although South Africa allows gay marriage, “it’s as though there are more gays here.” For Talal, Riyadh became an escape. When he was 17 and living in Da­mas­cus, his father walked in on him having sex with a male friend. He hit Talal and grounded him for two months, letting him out of the house only after he swore he was no longer attracted to men. Talal’s pale face flushed crimson as he recalled his shame at disappointing his family. Eager to escape the weight of their expectations, he took a job in Riyadh. When he announced that he would be moving, his father responded, “You know all Saudis like boys, and you are white. Take care.” Talal was pleased to find a measure of truth in his father’s warning—his fair skin made him a hit among the locals.

A magazine editor in Jeddah told me that many boys in Mecca, where he grew up, have sexual relations with men, but they don’t see themselves as gay. Abubaker Bagader, a human-rights activist based in Jeddah, explained that homosexuality can be viewed as a phase. “Homosexuality is considered something one might pass by,” he said. “It’s to be understood as a stage of life, particularly at youth.” This view of sexual behavior, in combination with the strict segregation of the sexes, serves to foster homosexual acts, shifting the stigma onto bottoms and allowing older men to excuse their younger behavior—their time as bottoms—as mere youthful transgressions.

Black

What was the point of this article you are quoting in the comments? Apart from ruining the reputation of Muslims in KSA? Are you using this as an excuse to show that gender segregation is problematic? Newsflash, abolishing gender segregation will not change whatever is written in the quoted article. 96% of the population are heterosexual and gender segregation will go a long way in preventing zina. Yes, you and I may be able to control ourselves from temptations in a mixed environment but you and I are not everybody. I find a lot of your comments on previous articles problematic but this one surely takes the cake.
Gender segregation has a lot of benefits like making it easier to lower our gazes and guard our modesty. Remember that Baz.

Takeshi

What really keeps people away from zina is making the halal easy (make marriages easy for young people), when people can’t marry until they become 30, then all the haram gates are opened.

Black

I agree with marriage being a permanent solution but it is beginning to sound like a pipe dream for many young Muslims. There is a lot of emphasis on education and career which delays marriages significantly as I am sure you are well aware of. As feminism progresses, I expect this mindset of delaying marriages amongst women to be more heavily reinforced. Another thing is the eagerness to ape the West is a mindset that is pervasive amongst the communities.They have a culture of delaying marriages as they freely roam around since they don’t need marriage to access intimacy.

All in all, these problems have been around for decades and they are about to get worse with Western ideologies making their way through the Muslim world

Baz

If you think I’m “ruining the reputations of Muslims in KSA” by telling you about the fact that they have a huge gay underground scene which largely exists in the first place because of their former (now abolished) tight policing of straight hookups, then aren’t you and Muslim skeptic ruining the reputation of the Muslims who go to co-ed places by posting articles like this which expose their straight sins? By the way, in most of the world including in America you still have the option to go to single-sex schools/colleges, and no one is forcing you or mandating you to send your children to co-ed schools.

And yes early marriage or what I call “virgogamy” is one solution (which is more like a “band-aid plaster” or “symptoms relief”-type of solution to help reduce fornication). But it’s not realistically feasible or practical for 100% of everyone to marry that young. More or less everyone starts getting natural lust feelings and desire to fulfill it when they are between 11 to 14 years old, however in the modern world it is not realistically feasible or practical for the majority of people to marry before 18 (or even 21-25 for many boys/men because of the requirement to be able to be independent and earn his own living rizq and sustain dependent wives, which no boy can do when he is just 11 to 14 years old. If you think that every single boy and girl in the country should have their first ever marriage at ages 10 to 14 (when all of them start feeling their natural lust) then you’ve gone mad. At best, virgogamy or early age marriage will only REDUCE the youth fornication by a slight amount (maybe 10 or 20% at most) but will not eliminate all of it, since not everyone will marry so early even if they are able to.

So unfortunately it is inevitable that in any country under any system (whether it is woke westernism or sharia if they follow it correctly by respecting people’s privacy in the private sphere like how the Saudi morality police did for the most part) it is 100% guaranteed that there will be some kind of Zinaa happening by at least a large minority of the population. It’s irrelevant if 96% of the population are naturally “straight” and only 4%are naturally “gay”. People don’t need to fit in the Western definition of “gay” to do homosexuality. In the Saudi example I gave above, those men and boys and girls are not really gay, they would fit in the Western liberals’ definition of “straight” (including some of the men having wives at home who are not always available due to pregnant or period) who resort to homosexuality mainly out of desperation because of the difficulty of accessing the opposite gender during that ultra-orthodox era before the recent 2010s liberal reforms. And now because of these recent reforms, a large chunk of that underground gay scene is likely to have been eliminated and maybe replaced by an equally large hetero scene.

If you suppress heterosexual meetings such as by eliminating all co-ed schools you will only directly provoke many of them to unleash their natural lust on people who are not the opposite gender. Your imposed maximum gender segregation will go a long way in preventing Zinaa like you said, but also highly contribute to replacing it with another type of Zinaa. That’s what is called “situational homosexuality” which is common in prisons where straight criminal men go in and suddenly become homosexuals. It’s as simple as that. You want to replace the lustful gaze at co-ed schools with a lustful gaze to same sex at same-sex schools? The only choice you have even under Islamic sharia is to choose between a huge underground hetero scene or an equally large (if not larger) huge underground gay/lesbian scene. The underground gay/lesbian scene can be just as large or bigger than hetero fornication scene because (unlike hetero) the homo sinners can easily get away with it by just posing as normal friends or roommates which is perfectly legal and socially acceptable, whereas with hetero in Muslim countries the conservative families usually interfere to stop it as soon as they know of their son or daughter seeing opposite sex person.

I am not halalizing any of this gay or straight zinaa. However you are treating this as a disease which can only be treated by the “vaccination” of early marriage, and as seen with covid, not everyone is able to or willing to take a vaccine which is mandated or pressured by a ruling authority, including authorities who call themselves Islamic rulers. Instead I’m suggesting a better solution which includes both your suggested vaccination, AND also something that you don’t address, which is to treat people who have already been infected. My suggested treatment is encouraging the affected patients to take the medicine of towba, fasting and exercising greater self-control. That can be done even for those at co-ed schools just as much as single-sex schools. And no matter how hard you try you will not be able to eradicate the disease of gay/straight Zinaa entirely from the country, you can only contain it by reducing it to a lesser level.

So I challenge you to answer my question ; which type of Zinaa is worse? Hetero or Homo? Your choice under sharia is to choose either one of them being more common than the other one in a large underground scene.

Black

A fan of long reponses huh? No problem, let’s get right in. Read my full response on every paragraph you’ve written. 6 paragraphs, 6 responses

PARAGRAPH 1:
“If you think I’m “ruining the reputations of Muslims in KSA” by telling you about the fact that they have a huge gay underground scene which largely exists in the first place because of their former (now abolished) tight policing of straight hookups, then aren’t you and Muslim skeptic ruining the reputation of the Muslims who go to co-ed places by posting articles like this which expose their straight sins? By the way, in most of the world including in America you still have the option to go to single-sex schools/colleges, and no one is forcing you or mandating you to send your children to co-ed schools.”

1)
Yes, I think you are ruining the reputation of Muslims by trying to quote the kuffar.What makes you think their reporting is objective especially when it comes to Muslims ? Reading that article, one might think that Saudi Arabia is the Las Vegas of homosexuality. How can there be a ‘large’ underground scene if the people afflicted with these deviant tendencies are a minority in the population? No,Muslim Skeptic and I are not ruining the reputation of Muslims in the West when we advocate for gender segregation. Yes, you do have the option of going to single-sex schools/colleges in America and the rest of the world and yes, no one is forcing anyone at the moment to send our kids to co-ed schools. So? Can’t I voice out my objections against a system even if it is not being imposed in me? According to your logic,I can’t complain about communism when communism is not being imposed one me. I can criticize co-ed schools and our objections are legitimate to the extent that some of the disbelievers agree: Article link quoted below.
https://www.theeducatoronline.com/k12/news/students-do-better-in-singlesex-schools–study/242635#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20has%20found,for%20both%20boys%20and%20girls.

PARAGRAPH 2:
“And yes early marriage or what I call “virgogamy” is one solution (which is more like a “band-aid plaster” or “symptoms relief”-type of solution to help reduce fornication). But it’s not realistically feasible or practical for 100% of everyone to marry that young. More or less everyone starts getting natural lust feelings and desire to fulfill it when they are between 11 to 14 years old, however in the modern world it is not realistically feasible or practical for the majority of people to marry before 18 (or even 21-25 for many boys/men because of the requirement to be able to be independent and earn his own living rizq and sustain dependent wives, which no boy can do when he is just 11 to 14 years old. If you think that every single boy and girl in the country should have their first ever marriage at ages 10 to 14 (when all of them start feeling their natural lust) then you’ve gone mad. At best, virgogamy or early age marriage will only REDUCE the youth fornication by a slight amount (maybe 10 or 20% at most) but will not eliminate all of it, since not everyone will marry so early even if they are able to.”

2)
Arrangements and compromises can be made to get early marriages going. It’s not unrealistic. Muslims just lack the will to get it done.It remains the best alternative.A defeatist mentality gets you nowhere. My point remains that no one is even entertaining the conversation which is the first step to solving the problem.

PARAGRAPH 3:
“So unfortunately it is inevitable that in any country under any system (whether it is woke westernism or sharia if they follow it correctly by respecting people’s privacy in the private sphere like how the Saudi morality police did for the most part) it is 100% guaranteed that there will be some kind of Zinaa happening by at least a large minority of the population. It’s irrelevant if 96% of the population are naturally “straight” and only 4%are naturally “gay”. People don’t need to fit in the Western definition of “gay” to do homosexuality. In the Saudi example I gave above, those men and boys and girls are not really gay, they would fit in the Western liberals’ definition of “straight” (including some of the men having wives at home who are not always available due to pregnant or period) who resort to homosexuality mainly out of desperation because of the difficulty of accessing the opposite gender during that ultra-orthodox era before the recent 2010s liberal reforms. And now because of these recent reforms, a large chunk of that underground gay scene is likely to have been eliminated and maybe replaced by an equally large hetero scene.”

3)
I agree that Zina cannot be completely eradicated but Sharia stands the best chance of reducing it’s promotion and glorification. It would obviously require Muslims to possess piety, righteousness and fear of Allah(s.w) to eliminate Zina in their homes .This requires a society willing to cultivate such values which can only exist in the Sharia state. As for the definition of homosexuality,it is simply the attraction to the same gender,nothing more,nothing less.I speak as a heterosexual male who has been in a single gender school at the peak of my desires and I have never felt inclined towards the same gender in any shape or form.The thought is repulsive and I know I share the same sentiments with other heterosexual males. The idea that sexual repression might lead the homosexuality is ridiculous and it’s only in the West where such garbage can mainfest itself in form of experimentation.Why is it that in my conservative country(not Muslim by the way) with it’s gender segregated primary and secondary schools,we don’t hear these incidents?I have the added benefit of living in this environment and we were fine. If you agree with the Atlantic article’s contents,then you agree it is also a Western definition of homosexuality since they are Westerners as well. As for liberal reforms eliminating the underground gay sene and replacing it with a hetero scene, where is your evidence?

PARAGRAPH 4:
“If you suppress heterosexual meetings such as by eliminating all co-ed schools you will only directly provoke many of them to unleash their natural lust on people who are not the opposite gender. Your imposed maximum gender segregation will go a long way in preventing Zinaa like you said, but also highly contribute to replacing it with another type of Zinaa. That’s what is called “situational homosexuality” which is common in prisons where straight criminal men go in and suddenly become homosexuals. It’s as simple as that. You want to replace the lustful gaze at co-ed schools with a lustful gaze to same sex at same-sex schools? The only choice you have even under Islamic sharia is to choose between a huge underground hetero scene or an equally large (if not larger) huge underground gay/lesbian scene. The underground gay/lesbian scene can be just as large or bigger than hetero fornication scene because (unlike hetero) the homo sinners can easily get away with it by just posing as normal friends or roommates which is perfectly legal and socially acceptable, whereas with hetero in Muslim countries the conservative families usually interfere to stop it as soon as they know of their son or daughter seeing opposite sex person.”

4)
Saying that people will resort to situational homosexuality without access to the opposite gender is ridiculous. What gives you that idea? Statistics and behaviours from the kuffar?Those who don’t possess a moral compass to guide their actions? Are you suggesting that there is a large group of Muslims in KSA who would risk the wrath of Allah(s.w) to engage in the acts of Qawm Lut? The same Qawm Lut that were eradicated for this behavior? Are you telling me and everybody else here that under Islamic sharia that the behavior of Qawm Lut can be more widespread than in a Kafir country? Really Baz? Are you saying that we are just animals with no form of direction and that our desires cannot be controlled? With that mentality, people can get away with sinning simply because you do not wish to hold them to a higher standard of accountability. As for homo sinners posing as normal friends in order to be able to sin and it going undetected,that is up to the individual Muslim to determine if that is the path that they wish to take.Refer above to my previous paragraph about what Muslims would need to do.

PARAGRAPH 5:
“I am not halalizing any of this gay or straight zinaa. However you are treating this as a disease which can only be treated by the “vaccination” of early marriage, and as seen with covid, not everyone is able to or willing to take a vaccine which is mandated or pressured by a ruling authority, including authorities who call themselves Islamic rulers. Instead I’m suggesting a better solution which includes both your suggested vaccination, AND also something that you don’t address, which is to treat people who have already been infected. My suggested treatment is encouraging the affected patients to take the medicine of towba, fasting and exercising greater self-control. That can be done even for those at co-ed schools just as much as single-sex schools. And no matter how hard you try you will not be able to eradicate the disease of gay/straight Zinaa entirely from the country, you can only contain it by reducing it to a lesser level.”

5)
I have no issues with tawba,fasting and exercising greater self-control.These can be done in addition to mandating single sex schools. Fitna is more pervasive in co-ed schools obviously.Again, I agree that Zina can be lessened but it stands a better chance under Sharia than under any other system.

PARAGRAPH 6:
“So I challenge you to answer my question ; which type of Zinaa is worse? Hetero or Homo? Your choice under sharia is to choose either one of them being more common than the other one in a large underground scene.”

6)
This is not a binary problem. Allah(s.w) says in the Quran:
And come not near unto adultery. Lo! it is an abomination and an evil way.
[Quran 17:32]
Both of them involve transgression against the Creator and both of them carry the capital punishment (Zina only in the case of being married )so asking which is worse is besides the point. Sharia working hand in hand with the Muslim population can avoid both of them or limit them severely.
Lastly,unless you have evidence like being a witness to a large underground fahisha taking place in Saudi, please don’t quote the kuffar.Their job is to smear,slander and sensationalize where they can.They are not an authority on what happens in Saudi Arabia and as Muslims we should have husn-al-dhan for every other Muslim out there.

Last edited 3 months ago by Black
Baz

You have the free speech right to air your views here. But don’t force your views on people against their will like what IEA does. You keep on criticizing me at least 3 times for “quoting the kuffar”. If that’s such a bad thing then why don’t you denounce Muslim skeptic whose entire blog and almost every article is quoting the cuffarts to promote his own views? Including this one! In fact, his criticism of the cuffarts such as (Crimerica running Gitmo) is based on the criticism from other cuffarts like the woke liberals, not only based on Muslim criticism. If you don’t want to believe anything that the cuffar say then don’t read Muslim skeptic because he quotes them all the time and writes his opinions based on what they say, for example all the abuse of boys by men by catholic church was exposed entirely by pro-LGBT liberal cuffarts (it is not Muslims who exposed these crimes), so he is criticising the catholic church for its pederasty abuse, entirely based on news reported by pro-gay cuffar. So if you think that the cuffar are always only lying when they accuse people of homosexuality then why don’t you accuse them of lying when they accuse the religious clerics of homosexuality? Do you think that all Saudis are so perfect that no one there ever does the inappropriate same-sex relationship? If you want me to do حسن الظن or assuming the best, then why don’t you assume the best with all the Muslims who study and work at co-ed institutions? Including the ones in Morocco in this article? You tell me to not quote cuffar to say that there is a large underground scene in KSA unless I was personally witness to it. If that’s the case then you also don’t quote the cuffar to make any accusations that there is a large Zinaa scene in co-ed schools, unless you have personally witnessed it. I also went to single-sex school for two years and I never did or felt any temptation to do same-sex relationships, including even after I transferred to co-ed school and university later, I never got involved in gay or straight Zinaa despite it being readily available all around me, because I always felt it to be disgusting. It’s developing that kind of mindset which does the real job of keeping a Muslim away from Zinaa, not enforced gender segregation. However the difference between this KSA example I quote here and other places such as your “conservative” nonMuslim country is that boys and men can still easily fornicate with females outside school because nonMuslim societies don’t have what I call “SegreMax” (maximum gender segregation in all aspects of society everywhere) unlike the old KSA. So don’t treat school in isolation to the rest of society. So when the ruling regime such as the old KSA imposes the ultimate total SegreMax they are almost completely eliminating men’s access to extrafamilial females anywhere (which is also the case in prison) which is what drives them to situational homosexuality, which is very real and not ridiculous or made-up fake news like what you claim. As I said already, you don’t need to be from the gay minority to do gay sex, since anyone including even straight men can do it, if they are desperately starved of women like how KSA used to do in all aspects of society.m. I also mention that this underground gay and partying scene has been going on in the Muslim world for over a millennia (it’s not developed recently because of the Western influence) including in Al-Andalus and Ottoman Istanbul. The old KSA, like these other medieval Muslim civilizations, is not a “Las Vegas” because they’re not doing it openly or advertising or promoting it, but instead a large minority of the population is doing it discreetly as an underground scene. I’m not saying that everyone does it (of course the majority are good Muslims who avoid it) but a large significant minority does. When you say “mandate gender segregation” I presume you’re doing that part of a broader package of demanding Talbanization to forcibly shove the harsh cruel “nearly everything is haram and crime” domestic policies of IEA and IS on everyone everywhere in the world. As I explained elsewhere on this blog, that is something that 80-99% of every city outside Af-Pak strongly refuse and will fiercely resist against. I will be happy to support providing enough single-sex schools to fit according to the demand from parents and society, but I don’t support forcibly eliminating 100% of all co-ed schools nationwide or worldwide when there are plenty of people who have no problems with co-ed schools. Another thing is that for university it is not always convenient or practical to have separate universities for girls for everything, such as male dominated subjects like engineering where there is a small number of female students, it is not convenient or practical to make a separate class or college for them when their numbers are few. If you suggest to kick them out altogether from being allowed to study such male-dominated subjects like engineering just in case you’re one of those hardliners who believe that it’s haram for women to study or work in male-dominated professions like engineering or pilot or police or military, then you’re a mean Talibanist, keep that kind of patriarchal fascist policy confined to only within Afghanistan and don’t forcibly export that everywhere else outside Afghanistan.

Black

Your paragraphs below and my responses.

PARAGRAPH 1 :
You have the free speech right to air your views here. But don’t force your views on people against their will like what IEA does. You keep on criticizing me at least 3 times for “quoting the kuffar”. If that’s such a bad thing then why don’t you denounce Muslim skeptic whose entire blog and almost every article is quoting the cuffarts to promote his own views? Including this one! In fact, his criticism of the cuffarts such as (Crimerica running Gitmo) is based on the criticism from other cuffarts like the woke liberals, not only based on Muslim criticism. If you don’t want to believe anything that the cuffar say then don’t read Muslim skeptic because he quotes them all the time and writes his opinions based on what they say, for example all the abuse of boys by men by catholic church was exposed entirely by pro-LGBT liberal cuffarts (it is not Muslims who exposed these crimes), so he is criticising the catholic church for its pederasty abuse, entirely based on news reported by pro-gay cuffar. So if you think that the cuffar are always only lying when they accuse people of homosexuality then why don’t you accuse them of lying when they accuse the religious clerics of homosexuality? Do you think that all Saudis are so perfect that no one there ever does the inappropriate same-sex relationship?

1)
I keep criticizing you for “quoting the kuffar”? Really Baz? What I am criticizing is the kuffar interviewing 1 or 2 anonymous people who say there is, in your words “a large underground scene of sodomy/homosexuality” in KSA and then publishing it like they are an authority in Saudi Arabia. Do you consider their claims valid? Under what pretence? Where is the evidence? Some anonymous “Muslims” ? You of all people should know the seriousness of false accusations especially directed towards Muslims. I have no problem with Muslim skeptic quoting the kuffar over Guantanamo Bay and the Catholic Church especially since it has no bearing on the dignity and honor of Muslims.Whenever someone accuses a Muslim of something, I am mandated to examine the claim carefully as well as the evidence behind it before speaking about it publically. Even the kuffar have their own code – Innocent until proven guilty. Matter of fact, US officials has spoken and acknowledge the Gitmo is a torture facility so they have essentially admitted their guilt.As for the Catholic Church,some of the victims were already paid as settlements outside court totalling upto USD 3 billion.We can say there is an admission of guilt if settlements of such proportions are being reached. I don’t consider Saudi Arabia perfect, but I sure as hell won’t accuse them of hosting secret sodomy parties of large propotions as you’ve put it without bulletproof evidence. And the Guradian article is NOT conclusive evidence,rather they are accusations.

PARAGRAPH 2 :
If you want me to do حسن الظن or assuming the best, then why don’t you assume the best with all the Muslims who study and work at co-ed institutions? Including the ones in Morocco in this article? You tell me to not quote cuffar to say that there is a large underground scene in KSA unless I was personally witness to it. If that’s the case then you also don’t quote the cuffar to make any accusations that there is a large Zinaa scene in co-ed schools, unless you have personally witnessed it. I also went to single-sex school for two years and I never did or felt any temptation to do same-sex relationships, including even after I transferred to co-ed school and university later, I never got involved in gay or straight Zinaa despite it being readily available all around me, because I always felt it to be disgusting. It’s developing that kind of mindset which does the real job of keeping a Muslim away from Zinaa, not enforced gender segregation.

2)
You seem not to understand that I have never made a specific claim in this comment section that Muslims are doing zina in co-ed schools. I acknowledge the possibility of it happening and the temptations attached to it but I cannot claim that which I cannot prove. I know free gender mixing can POSSIBLY lead to relationships that are HARAM which can POSSIBLY lead to zina. I have not accused Moroccan Muslims of anything.You must be confusing me with someone else. We both agree that developing a mindset to stay away from such acts will keep us from Zina but like I said previously, you and I are not everybody.Others may be inevitably weaker to the allure of temptations. It is easier on them if gender segregation were practiced more frequently. Lowering your gaze all the time is frustrating and you are bound to slip up if you do not have the resilience to maintain it. It is easy to crush on someone after seeing them once and work hard to forget that which your heart is tempted by. I don’t know why you’re advocating for a liberal “join whatever school you prefer” type of mentality when you already know what is best for everybody.

PARAGRAPH 3:
However the difference between this KSA example I quote here and other places such as your “conservative” nonMuslim country is that boys and men can still easily fornicate with females outside school because nonMuslim societies don’t have what I call “SegreMax” (maximum gender segregation in all aspects of society everywhere) unlike the old KSA. So don’t treat school in isolation to the rest of society. So when the ruling regime such as the old KSA imposes the ultimate total SegreMax they are almost completely eliminating men’s access to extrafamilial females anywhere (which is also the case in prison) which is what drives them to situational homosexuality, which is very real and not ridiculous or made-up fake news like what you claim. As I said already, you don’t need to be from the gay minority to do gay sex, since anyone including even straight men can do it, if they are desperately starved of women like how KSA used to do in all aspects of society.m. I also mention that this underground gay and partying scene has been going on in the Muslim world for over a millennia (it’s not developed recently because of the Western influence) including in Al-Andalus and Ottoman Istanbul. The old KSA, like these other medieval Muslim civilizations, is not a “Las Vegas” because they’re not doing it openly or advertising or promoting it, but instead a large minority of the population is doing it discreetly as an underground scene. I’m not saying that everyone does it (of course the majority are good Muslims who avoid it) but a large significant minority does.

3)
Situational homosexuality can also happen where you have access to the opposite gender. There are those who would experiment even if they don’t have the homosexual disposition in many of these Western countries. They are depraved enough to behave like animals when it suits them. Saying that Muslims would do the same and then wake up for Fajr, hear the adhaan and go to pray is unbelievable. Until you have iron-clad evidence that they behave like the kuffar when no one is watching ,you’ve got no right to level such a despicable accusation on them. Why would straight men enjoy sodomy? You admitted that you find the act disgusting yet you are also saying that those in KSA do it? I am assuming you live in a more liberal environment, yet the thought is repulsive. How can any straight man satisfy himself with another man? I remember reading a study that straight men seeing gay men kissing was the equivalent of watching maggots on meat.In Russia,it is claimed that straight men would often get drunk to lower their inhibitions.So how is it possible for a large group of Muslims would willingly entertain such disgusting acts. Ones that they don’t feel attracted to?
I don’t know much about Al-Andalus and the Ottoman Empire,so I won’t speak on them. Interesting that in another post of Al-Andalus on this blog ,you said that there was relaxed policies of gender segregation and slave-girls music was halal. So where did the “situational homosexuality” come from?

PARAGRAPH 4:
When you say “mandate gender segregation” I presume you’re doing that part of a broader package of demanding Talbanization to forcibly shove the harsh cruel “nearly everything is haram and crime” domestic policies of IEA and IS on everyone everywhere in the world. As I explained elsewhere on this blog, that is something that 80-99% of every city outside Af-Pak strongly refuse and will fiercely resist against. I will be happy to support providing enough single-sex schools to fit according to the demand from parents and society, but I don’t support forcibly eliminating 100% of all co-ed schools nationwide or worldwide when there are plenty of people who have no problems with co-ed schools. Another thing is that for university it is not always convenient or practical to have separate universities for girls for everything, such as male dominated subjects like engineering where there is a small number of female students, it is not convenient or practical to make a separate class or college for them when their numbers are few. If you suggest to kick them out altogether from being allowed to study such male-dominated subjects like engineering just in case you’re one of those hardliners who believe that it’s haram for women to study or work in male-dominated professions like engineering or pilot or police or military, then you’re a mean Talibanist, keep that kind of patriarchal fascist policy confined to only within Afghanistan and don’t forcibly export that everywhere else outside Afghanistan.

4)
Again, you seem to think I am this villian that wants to dominate the planet and haramize everything.I expect Sharia on Muslim majority lands, PERIOD. As it is we are not conquering other countries anymore so this worldwide prohibition you keep referring to is a little out there.As for STEM subjects and having low female capacity,it is feasible to build smaller lecture halls for those subjects with little enrollment. Funny enough, female participation in STEM subjects is noticeably higher in Iran,Oman and other countries in the Middle East than it is in Western lands. BTW,a Muslim published that study. I don’t know why you keep mentioning the Taliban.You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding them.I have no issues with women seeking knowledge and working, provided the job is halal.How can we keep things as halal as possible in a professional environment Baz? Gender segregation.

Last edited 3 months ago by Black
Baz

I’m not directing slander against any specific individual identifiable Muslim, that’s the crime which is punishable by 80 whiplash, not speaking in general terms by saying that a particular sin is prevalent among a significant minority of the population of a particular Muslim-majority region. Nor is it haram to say that a specific individual Muslim is doing a particular sin, without identifying who he is so that we don’t know who he is. That’s what some salafi dawah speakers like dawah man have done, he said in his video “shady dawah characters” “I know a sheikh who beats his wife, I know a particular sheikh who exploits women in a secret marriage” etc. This kind of anonymous accusation doesn’t count as slander, because he is not identifying the specific accused person, but he is saying that there is a problem happening below the surface. Resoolullah PBUH knew that there are munafiqeen hiding in his community but he did not call out suspected munafiq individuals like Abdullah bin Obey, however he and quran didn’t stop warning us about munafiqeen hiding in our community, without identifying specific individuals. Likewise it is not my intention to accuse any specific individual Arabian of sodomy, however it is not wrong for me to say that it does exist in Arabia and a lot of people discreetly do it, just like the royal princes going on wild parties being a widely known open secret.

“Saying that Muslims would do the same and then wake up for Fajr, hear the adhaan and go to pray is unbelievable.”
No its not unbelievable. Muslims sin all the time, including Zinaa, and do towba. Homosexuality is just another type of Zinaa, and it’s not necessary to be “gay” to do it. There are dawah preachers like dawah man who preach about this regularly.

“Until you have iron-clad evidence that they behave like the kuffar when no one is watching ,you’ve got no right to level such a despicable accusation on them.”
I’m not accusing any specific identified individual. I’m identifying a trend in a cross-section in society. And if doing a sin behind closed doors counts as “behaving like kuffar” then guess what, lots of Muslims are “behaving like kuffar” not only for homosexuality but many other sins.

“Matter of fact, US officials has spoken and acknowledge the Gitmo is a torture facility so they have essentially admitted their guilt.As for the Catholic Church,some of the victims were already paid as settlements outside court totalling upto USD 3 billion.”
How do you know this? Because you believe and trust in the claims of the Liberal cuffarts media who said this, not because of some Muslim who exposed it. So, just like what you’re accusing me of, you’re making accusations of sexual misbehavior based on what cuffar claim.

“You seem not to understand that I have never made a specific claim in this comment section that Muslims are doing zina in co-ed schools. I acknowledge the possibility of it happening and the temptations attached to it but I cannot claim that which I cannot prove. I know free gender mixing can POSSIBLY lead to relationships that are HARAM which can POSSIBLY lead to zina. I have not accused Moroccan Muslims of anything.”
I have not made any specific accusation against any specific Arabian Muslim doing same-sex relations in same-sex schools. However I acknowledge the possibility of it happening and the temptations attached to it. I know that completely eliminating all opposite-sex contact from people can POSSIBLY lead to same-sex relationships that are HARAM which can POSSIBLY lead to homo zina.

“Why would straight men enjoy sodomy? How can any straight man satisfy himself with another man?”
Maybe a more accurate terminology that I borrowed from the LGBT playbook would be “bi-curious”, which means people who are normally straight or “mostly heterosexual” but willing to try out homo.

“You admitted that you find the act disgusting yet you are also saying that those in KSA do it? I am assuming you live in a more liberal environment, yet the thought is repulsive. I remember reading a study that straight men seeing gay men kissing was the equivalent of watching maggots on meat.”
You may find it disgusting but not everyone does. Just like eating insects, lizards and scorpions, there are some people who find it disgusting, but other people who don’t find it disgusting (it is a common dish in some cultures). And in China many people find it disgusting to eat every animal, but many other people don’t find it disgusting. It is recorded in hadeeth that Resoolullah sollollahualeihiwecellem refused to eat a lizard because he it did not feel comfortable to eat a lizard, but he did not prohibit Muslims from eating lizard. So it just varies from individual to individual what they find disgusting. And even that can change in an individual, so after they overcome their initial disgust of something to try it, then their disgust for it reduces or vanishes as they get used to it. I was like that with many types of food and drinks as I grew up. I was initially disgusted by the thought of consuming it, but I overcame that feeling to try it until I lost the disgust feeling. So it’s not unrealistic that the same could happen with homo for many people. By the way some cultures actually eat cooked maggots, they don’t find it disgusting.

“We both agree that developing a mindset to stay away from such acts will keep us from Zina but like I said previously, you and I are not everybody. Others may be inevitably weaker to the allure of temptations.”
Yes, you and I may have the willpower to keep away from homo but you and I are not everybody. Others may be inevitably weaker to the allure of homo temptations, especially if they manage to get past the initial stage of disgust at the thought of sodomy.

“Interesting that in another post of Al-Andalus on this blog ,you said that there was relaxed policies of gender segregation and slave-girls music was halal. So where did the “situational homosexuality” come from?”
Yes its true that Al-Andalus and its most prominent city Cordoba was nothing less than the Dubai of that era. Which means yes they had many people enjoying homosexuality in an “open secret” underground scene, and they also had musicians and slave-women who don’t cover their arms and head as you can see in the left side of that picture of that article (which means by definition they tolerated the sight of uncovered women’s head in public and did not see the need for iranian policy of sending morality police on the streets to beat up and jail or harass women just for not covering their head). And of course let’s not forget, Al-Andalus had plenty of good pious conservative Muslims (I Assume the best by presuming they were the majority of Muslims) who led exemplary conservative Islamic lives without getting involved into the haram or taboo stuff.

“I don’t know why you keep mentioning the Talban. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding them.”

Why I keep on mentioning the C0mmie-loving drug-dealing haram nationalist IEA? Because Mr Muslim Skeptic clearly supports them (and most of the commenters on this blog agree with Muslim skeptic’s stated views and seem to be fans of him, and by extension his beloved IEA), as if the IEA are good guys or the best role model or closest ideal to Islamic ruling system. Look at all his coverage of Afghan/Tali, it’s always only giving positively biased or sympathetic coverage to them and NEVER saying anything bad or critical of them, meanwhile regarding his own host country he says ONLY BAD things and not one good thing about it. This is solid proof that he supports the druggie c0mmie-allied haram nationalist IEA. And he said on his video published June 8th 2020 and in his video debate against “Apostate prophet” at 33:40 in the video, that he supports an expansionist empire which tries to conquer the whole world including even nonMuslim countries for the sake of forcibly imposing what he calls “Islamic law” on them, even if against the will of 80-99% of the people. Because he supports IEA and refuses to disagree with anything they do (while he criticizes other Muslim countries for doing things that he disagree with) he is implying that “Islamic law” means the IEA harsh cruel draconian system of “nearly everything is haram so must be criminalized”. That’s what he wants to forcibly impose on the whole world, which will require nothing less than barbaric Genocides and tortures of billions. I don’t want this version of sharia (I refuse to believe that this is the only correct version of sharia), and neither do the vast majority of Muslims in the major cities outside Afghanistan want it either. To be honest I have no issues with having an Islamic empire or “United States of Islam” (since that’s our Islamic sunnah, history and heritage) and I honestly don’t have any issue with such a harsh cruel draconian “everything is haram and crime” version of sharia (which I call “HARD sharia”) as long as it is confined to a limited area, only in places like rural and tribal areas of countries like Afghanistan and Yemen where I understand almost everyone there are hardline ultra-orthodox types who feel comfortable with hard Sharia. But don’t try to forcibly export it to everywhere else outside those ultra-orthodox regions (like what Haqiqatjou was calling for in his videos about the expansionist empire), especially big cities outside Afghanistan where the hyper-majority are “moderate” Muslims, secular/liberals and NonMuslims, and that type of hard sharia will not be welcomed and will be furiously resisted with the popular support of the majority of urban Muslims and all NonМuslіms. That’s why I’m commenting here, because I don’t want Muslim skeptic to inspire that real life Isis 2.0 to happen. Instead of hard sharia, the urban folks would prefer either a secular system (which I’m not in favor of), or a milder and more tolerant version of Islamic law more suitable for urban society, which I call “soft sharia” which is not so harsh and cruel and restrictive as hard sharia.

“Funny enough, female participation in STEM subjects is noticeably higher in Iran,Oman and other countries in the Middle East than it is in Western lands. BTW,a Muslim published that study.”
This is not necessarily the case EVERYWHERE in ALL PLACES. There are many places where very few female students for some subjects and it’s not economical or practical to make separate everything for them.

I have no problem with women being housewife and full-time stay-at-home mom like what Muslim skeptic seems to want for ALL women. I also have no issue with women studying and working at non-segregated institutions and workplaces in soft sharia areas, long as they behave and control themselves, which the vast majority of Muslims (including me and Haqiqatjou) can easily do and have done if they are given anti-Zinaa/anti-dating education. I also have no issue with women studying and working at single-sex institutions and workplaces like in your Talibanized hard sharia areas under SegreMax, although it can and does massively reduce the effectiveness of male-female communication and quality of teaching, and you’re wrong, it’s not practical or feasible to create separate classes or colleges for a few students. But whatever, you have your own way in your own talibanized hard sharia enclaves and autonomous regions. But please don’t support trying to force your overall package of hard sharia (which includes SegreMax) down the throats of the rest of the world, especially people in major cities outside Afghanistan who overwhelmingly don’t want it.

Black

We seem to be going in circles here.So I will keep my answer clear and concise. Speaking in general terms about a specific community and accusing them of underground activities may not be directed at individuals but they impact the status and reputation of the community in question.The Sheikh might stand up and talk in the masjid about the evils of the actions of Qawm Lut without saying that he personally knows that there are underground sodomy events.He will have done his duty and even then, he will be speaking as a Muslim.Your article is written by kaffirs who live in kaffir countries interviewing 2 anonymous people and saying that Saudi Arabia is a “Kingdom in the Closet” with a raging homosexual practicing community. Until now in this conversation,this is your ONLY evidence.
You misrepresent my statements about quoting the kuffar. Let’s break this down.

There are 2 distinctions here:
Distinction A : Kuffar making claims about other Kuffar
Distinction B : Kuffar making claims about Muslims

Distinction A has no bearing on me as a Muslim. If the Catholic Church is accused of covering for pedophilic priests, that’s their problem not mine. It’s irrelevant. As for Gitmo, US Military officials have spoken about this. Reporters have reported what they have witnessed in court, human rights organizations have spoken on it and even victims have spoken out in public about it. Not some offensive article with anonymous sources. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE

Distinction B concerns me because the honor of Muslims is something that we should stand for collectively. If you want to convince me or anyone else here, you need evidence.How about something more than anonymous sources who for all we know could have been made up for sensationalism. Actually,even an Islamic reporting agency would carry more weight than an outsider kaffir.
As for the disgusting aspect of homosexuality,you’re comparing it with eating something disgusting? Our fitra is wired to reject homosexuality.That is why any straight person would be repulsed.We may not like certain foods because of various reasons but homosexuality is disliked for a long time in human history because it was regarded as deviance. Limitations of it’s practice existed.

You mention the Al-Andalus had an underground scene in spite of looser gender segregation but my question still is,where did the homosexuality come from? An estimate of 4% would be a tiny minority not a bustling big crowd. Bisexual may exist but it exists within the category of the 4% as well as transgenderism. If we are assuming that it was a regular affair,then you can’t classify it as bi-curious because the people involved would come back for more which would signal enjoyment. If you enjoy sleeping with another man but are also attracted to women,then you will be classified as bisexual. They are such a tiny minority that your quoted article would be wrong about a large scene.

You assume that because I read MuslimSkeptic articles I and others agree to every single sentiment he shares. This is obviously wrong because you read his articles and you disagree with some of his positions. As for the Taliban,they remain the only option for the governance of Afghanistan and I’d rather them than the West.I disagree with their some of their methods. An example is their suicide bombers. As it stands they can hold the country from descending into utter bloodshed and protecting Afgan citizens from ISIS-K as well as bandits.If you refuse to acknowledge that Afghanistan has no future with them out of the negotiating table,then I don’t know how you can be helped. Call them misguided but they will not leave power easily.So it’s either we help them and thus change some of their problematic ideas or abandon them and risk making the Afghans suffer like they are suffering now. They obviously need the drug trade to make money to keep their soldiers full and armed. It’s either that or they splinter into factions and cause more chaos than is necessary.

Daniel Haqiqatjou supporting an Islamic Expansionist narrative is problematic to you? After the destruction that the Western Hemisphere have wreaked on Muslim countries? Are you afraid of them? As it stands, it is very unlikely that Muslims will unite. The kuffar would never allow it. The CIA and other foreign intelligence agencies would be turning each one of us against the other the moment the idea is conceived. The disbelievers need us subjugated because they do not wish their hegemony to be challenged. It is unlikely to happen so you worrying that MuslimSkeptic fans are going to turn full ISIS 2.0 is a little paranoid. As for forcibly imposing Sharia, what aspects? Salah for disbelievers? Fasting? Zakat? Hajj? or things like ban on homosexuality,fornication,alcohol? What form of Sharia do you consider soft and acceptable? If you’re going to allow people to do what they want when they want,why don’t you go ahead and call it by it’s true name, liberalism? Your comments against gender segregation being imposed means you don’t favor the Islamic Government telling you what to do and forcing you to live under rules that they consider sharia based. So should Islamic governments allow Riba under the excuse that Muslims know that is haram and can stay away from such institutions in order to favor the kuffar tourists? Should they host concerts under this same excuse? I could go on and on about this but it seems that the only form of Sharia you deem acceptable is one that doesn’t force anything and allows everything.

There are rules and regulations about how you would go about Dhimmi’s in a Muslim state.If a kaffir country was conquered,a Muslim ruler could consult the Ulema to decide what benefits the disbelievers would get. It would include signing peace treaties and agreements.And yes, I have no problem with conquering a Kaffir country. There are 1.9 billion Muslims.Frankly, we need some space. Before you criticize me for my callousness regarding the disbelievers, remember how they bomb kids in Afganistan and refugees in Syria as well as every other dead Muslim country that they have wreaked.They are remorseless for all the havoc they have caused.I’d rather be the guy that doesn’t allow gender segregation and mildly inconvenience the disbelievers than them dropping bombs on Muslim countries and making our children orphans. Don’t use the excuse that it was the governments of these countries and not their people.Their people have said nothing and they continue to tolerate and vote in these evil scumbags and then turn around and accuse us of terrorism. They not only tolerate it but even the countries that do not participate in the massacres keep silent and keep establishing ties with their genocidal counterparts.

Lastly your statements that DH opinion of Islamic sharia is “nearly everything is haram so must be criminalized”.Where are you getting this from? You sound as paranoid as those white supremacists who have that narrow mindset about Sharia. Name me 5 things that DH finds haram that you find halal. I’ll wait.

Last edited 3 months ago by Black
Baz

I tried to post another article here but it got deleted after I posted it (is Muslim skeptic trying to censor me now?). Let’s try posting it again here.

Too close for comfort: Homosexuality in schools
Rise in number of same-sex relationships in UAE schools a growing concern

Published: February 11, 2010 00:00
By Salam Al Amir, Staff Reporter

Homosexuality is prohibited in the UAE and violators face stiff punishment.

Sharjah: A shocking trend is sweeping across educational institutions in the UAE. It’s called same-sex relationships and it’s worrying officials and parents no end.
A number of students, school employees and others confided in XPRESS that inappropriate intimacy among girls is on the rise on campuses.

“They sit intimately close and touch each other inappropriately,” said Umm Rawan, an employee at the Sharjah University for Women (UOS).

The Emirati woman also had to deal with the demon on a personal level recently – first when her 16-year-old daughter fell for an Indian girl and then when her teenage son started receiving overtures from homosexual male students. Umm Rawan lodged a complaint with the school administration. “I am a divorcee and couldn’t handle these things on my own. I feared my kids would become homosexual so I gave them in the custody of their father,” she recalls.

But Umm Rawan’s startling revelation pales in comparison to the scandalous disclosure made by a girl on Abu Dhabi TV’s Step programme some time back.
Badriya, who prefers to be addressed as Bandar (a male name), shocked television audiences across the nation when she openly spoke of her relationship with another girl, Maha, and expressed the desire to marry her and have children with her through artificial fertilisation. “I love my girlfriend and I want to have children with her,” she said on national TV, adding that she would work to support her family.

Prohibited by law

Homosexuality is prohibited in the UAE and violators face stiff punishment.

Authorities are trying to curb deviant behaviour to better reflect the traditional conservative laws of the UAE. Last year the Ministry of Social Affairs launched an awareness campaign called Excuse me, I am a Girl, directed against what was described as ‘the ‘fourth gender’.

Meant to tackle lesbianism-related issues, the campaign included a series of workshops, TV programmes and lectures at universities and schools and was run by the Sharjah Social Care Centre for Women, an affiliate of the ministry. Samira Al Shair, Security Affairs Officer, Ajman Police, who implemented the campaign at Ajman Educational Zone said lesbianism accounted for 40 per cent of the 70-80 per cent of juvenile delinquency cases reported at Ajman schools.

“I dealt with many cases, almost all of which had one thing in common – the absence of a father,” recalled Samira.

Shocking estimates

Ameenah Ahmad, a UOS student who stays at the university dormitory, said that she estimates that up to one-third of the residents are lesbians. “We were ordered to dress properly even inside the dormitory. Sleeveless dresses and shorts have been banned lately,” she said.

Bakheeta Al Khatri, Manager, women’s dormitory at UOS, which has 8,000 female students including 1,600 in the hostel, denied knowledge of deviant activity, but didn’t entirely rule out the possibility. “If there are such cases, I doubt if the girls involved will talk about it,” she said. But some girls are talking.

Nana Rami, 19, an American University pupil, claims she was approached by a girl during a visit to Sharjah University. “She started flattering my body and sought to seek a relationship, but I turned her down,” said Nana.

Hana Al’adi, a student at UOS also had a similar experience. “Now I exercise caution while interacting with them,” she said.

Dr Alia Ebrahim, a family and educational issues consultant based in Sharjah and Ajman, said there were several factors responsible for the upswing in same-sex relationships.

“Some theories suggest that gender identity disorder, often overlooked by parents and sometimes promoted by discriminating between genders within the family, is a key factor, “ she said.

Other possible contributing factors, she said, could include being the only girl among male siblings, absence of a father figure and sexual assault.

According to Dr Alia, worried mothers have reported many cases of delinquent behaviour at the Umm Al Mo’mineen Society, Family Bonds Consultation Centre in Ajman, which deals with the issue, adding that lack of comprehensive research makes it difficult for experts to estimate exact numbers.

What’s the solution?

The solution, according to Dr Alia, includes gathering accurate statistics and assigning specialised committees to tackle the problem and setting in motion a mechanism to educate students and create awareness.

She also emphasised the importance of revising the curricula and supervising internet use and other technological tools.

In a TV interview, Saudi Arabia-based consultant psychiatrist Dr Tarek Habib admitted that same-sex relationships existed in universities and schools in GCC countries, but insisted that the numbers were fewer compared to educational institutions in other parts of the world. Habib said there are essentially two types of homosexual females; one who feels womanly but is sexually attracted towards girls, and the other who feels manly and trapped within a woman’s body.

He contended that some girls need a specialist therapist and that the issue falls under the purview of medical science and therefore does not need interference from religious scholars.

Scholar speaks

Dubai-based Islamic scholar Shaikh Ahmad Al Qubaisi, speaking on the issue of lesbianism noted that while it is forbidden (haram), there is no specific punishment as per Sharia law. He said Islam considers a woman’s status in society to be important and by publicising such cases, the entire family of the woman feels a sense of shame. He advised that such girls be treated discreetly.

Did you know?

According to Samira Al Shair, Ajman police, student delinquency at schools in Ajman stood at a steep 70-80 per cent, with lesbianism accounting for 40 per cent of this percentage.

Characteristics:

The Boya: The first type is the girl who turns to sexual delinquency and plays the boy’s role.
The Tomboy: The second type is a girl who is not sexually delinquent.
The Weaker girl: The third type is the weaker, beautiful girl who gets lured by the first type.
According to a case study, a Teenager, 16, who was raised by her divorced mother, turned to same-sex ties on pressure from friends

© Al Nisr Publishing LLC 2022. All rights reserved.

Baz

I have already explained my more pragmatic and realistic vision for an ideal Islam country in long detail in the comments of the a article “War in Ukraine: How will Muslims be affected?”, as well as the real life ground complexities and difficulties of trying to achieve your fantasy of conquering the world and trying to force your fascist version of sheriiea on everyone everywhere against their will (you’re not going to merely “cause them inconvenience” like you claim, actually you’re just going to end up making endless genocides and you will down in a nightmare of popular unarmed and armed resistance if you want to try and impose your own Islamic-flavored fascist system against the will of the majority people even in the urban Muslim world, let alone nonMuslim lands). If you want you can go check my explanations there, I’m not repeating it all again here.

Dar

Worthless article. You can write the same article about any degeneracy in any country. Just interview individual practitioners, and it will make something appear bigger than it really is.